Direction Reverser operation

[deereboy89]

On a late 420 crawler with the late style direction reverser, lever on the left side of the hood. On this crawler do you still need to hit the clutch when you switch directions or can you just throw the lever and head the other direction?
Thanks Dave[/quote]

[JD440ICD2006]

I could be wrong, but my thinking is ANY of the reversers prior to wet clutches are to be clutched. I have seen folks on 440's use the reverser with no clutch.
I am told that there are little ears that will eventually break off when the clutch is not used. That would be an expensive lazy foot! You not only depress the clutch, but completely stop the motion prior to moving the reverser handle.
The other point with reversers is that you never want to place the tranny in reverse and move the reverser to make the machine go forward. The drivetrain is not designed to work that way.

[KenP]

deleted

[JD440ICD2006]

KenP,

That leaves the 1010 and 2010 and I am not familar with their reversers.
But I am certain that not using the clutch and not stopping on any prior models to that will break expensive things quickly.

[KenP]

deleted

[Lavoy]

ALL 2 cylinder crawler need to have the clutch depressed to shift the reverser including the clutch type reversers. Failure to do so will lead to a rather expensive parts bill, and a lot of labor.
From the 1010 on out, they were a full hyd reverser, and there is no engine clutch, the clutch pedal is just a valve that opens the clutch packs.
Lavoy

[jdemaris]

On the 350 reverser, there's an adjustment on the valve body that regulates how fast or slow the reverser reacts to a direction change. Looking at the flow diagram, it appears to be nothing more than a "bleed" system... the more open the bleed valve, the faster (and harder) the clutches in the reverser engage.

There is also a shift accumlator with an adjustable bolt to increase or descrease the piston travel. That is there to help cushion the shifts.
The hydraulic clutched reverser is supposed to be safe with full power shifting. At full throttle with a 350 or 1010 in second gear -you are supposed to be able to shift from forward to reverse with no jerking or "whiplash." I don't do it with any of mine since it puts stress on the spring-loaded isolator that drives the reverser. I've had to fix too many for customers and I do not want to fix mine. And yeah, just pushing dirt puts stress on the isolator, but some of my reversers are over 50 years of age and I figure they need all the help I can give them.

As to the 440 wet over-center clutch reversers - they could be shifted safely without depressing the clutch pedal. But never under high speed or power and - it needs to be done slow enough so you get the benefit of the one clutch being disengaged - some neutral declutch time - and then engagement of the other. Using the pedal is good insurance but not 100% necessary for a careful operator. It seems we are not all in agreement with that. That's OK. Different experiences result in different opinions.

[Tigerhaze]

From the 1010 on out, they were a full hyd reverser, and there is no engine clutch, the clutch pedal is just a valve that opens the clutch packs.
Lavoy

Hi Lavoy- would that be true of the 2010s that have the constant mesh transmission? I have H-L-R on all of mine but was curious in case I ran across one.

[Lavoy]

Yes, constant mesh would have to use the clutch, sorry.
While I realize that a 440 reverser can be shifted without the clutch, the Deere factory decals state quite specifically that the clutch is to be used.
Lavoy

[JD440ICD2006]

I am in no way trying to start a riff or discount those on here that have forgotten more than I will ever know about these crawlers.
But, on the issue of always using the clutch before changing the reverser, I will offer this.
I have an Operator's Manual for the Pilot Touch system that was a relatively short lived option. The sequence of actions of the Pilot Touch include the clutch being disengaged BEFORE the direction reverser is changed.
My thought is that if the reverser were designed to change without the clutch, they would not have wasted extra circuits making it happen with the Pilot Touch.
Add to that the crawler Operator's Manual clearly states to ALWAYS use the foot clutch before moving the reverser.
It may be one of those issues that, if handled by a smooth operator, not under load or much power, it may work for a long time.
With the cost of parts (if you can locate them) today, I would personally spend the time to always use the clutch.

[jdemaris]

I am in no way trying to start a riff

I'm not either and I almost wish I hadn't commented.

I don't blame Deere for the "depress the the foot clutch" reommendation. If they did not say that, people would be shifting under power and tearing those reversers apart.

That same over-center clutches used in those 440 reversers are also used in many other applications that get shifted on and off with no outside declutching. On many farm tractor PTOs and various types of power units. Many are direct coupled to running engines and there is other clutch.

I've got two Case tractors that have that clutch setup in the PTO and also several four-cylinder Wisconsin power units that use it.

That reverser does not shift gears in and out of mesh like the older gear reversers. No clash to worry about, just damage from shock-loading. When shifting, one clutch gets disengaged, and then the other gets engaged. It cannot handle shifts under power like the later hydraulic-clutched units. It can handle being slowly declutched and then engaged. I'm not recommending it to anyone. I stated it can be done safely, and I stand by that.