looking for a crawler dozer (no loader)

[JD440ICD2006]

Here are a few hints to help figure out what is really there. If he has done work on it, he will have the receipts for what he spent. No receipts, no credit for "doing work" on it.
How long has he owned it? If he has had it a long time, he will have paperwork and know this crawler very well. He will have indept answers, not just "runs good", "turns good", "looks good", etc. Those are seller comments, not actual information that tells you the true condition of the crawler.
If he has not had it long, chances are he bought it cheap, fixed enough wrong with it to make it move, slapped paint on it to fool the inexperienced but motivated crawler buyer. Nothing wrong with either scenario, but it directly impacts what the buyer actually gets for his money.
For his asking price, I would need to deduct for undercarriage replacement parts, etc. They will move, turn, and even push when the U/C is PAST factory worn out specs.
With the grousers worn down that bad, the rails (chains) must also be very worn. Even if the sprockets have recently been replaced, you are looking at big money to replace the other U/C parts. And you just got started. If the pins and bushings are worn, it will wear the sprockets much faster, so the U/C must get attention before much heavy use. Get the receipts for the sprockets so you will know how long they have been on there.
One last thing, never trust an hour meter on a crawler that is this old unless it is the original owner and he can prove it. The tach cables break, etc.
I realize this may take some of the fun out of buying a crawler, but it can save you loads of money and buyer's remorse.

[andregrondin]

Hi !

Thank you for the tips ,
I called the guy and will se him again tonight but the repairs had been made
by the previous owner 5 years ago but the fellow is dead (r.i.p.) , so the new owner only put a new hydro pump on it !!

he is willing to deduct 1,000 of the asking price .

No you don't cut my fun at all , I want to learn but not too much the hard way !! when you state big $$$ for track chain do you have a price range ( at least an idea ball park figure please ???

He says that the shoes are worn but the chain under is good and the bushing also are well . I will go see it again and take more precise pics ,

in the mean time thank you again for all you do !!

[Tigerhaze]

No you don't cut my fun at all , I want to learn but not too much the hard way !! when you state big $$$ for track chain do you have a price range ( at least an idea ball park figure please ???

IF available, rails are likely in the couple thousand dollar (U.S.) range.

He says that the shoes are worn but the chain under is good and the bushing also are well . I will go see it again and take more precise pics

Do not take his word for this- do the measurements as indicated in this thread below and compare to the specs in the below thread for a JD 350. At least do the rail height which is quick to do and will tell you a lot about likely pin and busing wear if they hadn't been replaced:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=1214

As stated before, it looks like the grousers are worn out so it is likely that the rest of the track chain is as well.

[JD440ICD2006]

Not to beat this to death, but a typical "seller" will use statements like, "looks good", "runs good", "turns good", "good straight crawler", etc. They get lost if you ask them direct questions such as, what is the distance measurements on the rails? Have the pins and bushings been turned? If so, show me how you know. Were the sprockets replaced? They wear just like the rest of the U/C, and it is strange that sprockets are newer than the balance of the U/C. A knowing person would not do that for reasons that I stated earlier. Most "sellers" would not know where to begin. They use round numbers like "about 70% U/C".
At least know what is there before you commit to purchase. There is no warranty on these obviously, but make the seller as responsible as you can before purchase if they are asking a nice price like that. To say that a person that has passed did most of the work is a sure way for a seller to avoid responsibilty when the facts are uncovered.
Not meant to be disrespectful to the ones that are past, but the old saying is, "dead men can't talk."

[Lavoy]

Front idler seems fairly far back, make sure and count the track links. If it has 36 links, then at least that is one indicator that the rails are pretty good shape. If it has 35 links, then it has been short tracked, and they are junk, deduct another couple thousand from the price at least.
Lavoy

[KenP]

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[andregrondin]

No you don't cut my fun at all , I want to learn but not too much the hard way !! when you state big $$$ for track chain do you have a price range ( at least an idea ball park figure please ???

IF available, rails are likely in the couple thousand dollar (U.S.) range.

He says that the shoes are worn but the chain under is good and the bushing also are well . I will go see it again and take more precise pics

Do not take his word for this- do the measurements as indicated in this thread below and compare to the specs in the below thread for a JD 350. At least do the rail height which is quick to do and will tell you a lot about likely pin and busing wear if they hadn't been replaced:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=1214

the above link does not return anything at all !
here is the message I received : The topic or post you requested does not exist


As stated before, it looks like the grousers are worn out so it is likely that the rest of the track chain is as well.

[Lavoy]

You never know on rails and such. My 350 had brand new rails and sprockets, and shot pads. They also replaced all 5 rollers on one side, but only two on the other. I have long since given up trying to make heads or tails of what people do to these poor old girls. The one thing I do know, is if the seller can not VERY specifically tell you what has and has not been done to the crawler, assume it has not.
My all time favorite sellers line is "Doesn't steer on one side, just needs and adjustment". If that is the case, why don't you adjust it, and advertise it as steers nice.
Lavoy

[andregrondin]

Hi !

I printed all the tips you guys gave me , then also printed all the infos from the links provided ,I will read that go back to the guy take mesurement take more precise pics , ask the right questions , and try to pull all the infos possible from the owner and then I might have a better idea about all that .

The problem I have right now is I can"t find any mecanics .

one more thing that comes to my mind ! the previous owner is known by me ( he passed away) I know he was a guy who was close to his money and I'm not surprised that he would of fix the track links and bushing and then left the old shoes(grouser) on the chain , so what if the chain sprocket & bushing are good and only the grouser are shot (worn ) would it be ok ?
(after asking a price reduction )

no one killed my desire to buy but you helped me out open my eyes to something I was not aware enough to be able to make a good purchase ,
I'm so happy and so appreciative of all suggestions and comments from you guys ,knowing that here I would find the knowledge needed to help me .

thank so much to all !

write to you latter with pics and more info !!

[Lavoy]

Yes, if the rails are good, it is not that big of a deal to replace the pads, I did it on mine.
Lavoy

[440 iron popper]

My all time favorite sellers line is "Doesn't steer on one side, just needs and adjustment". If that is the case, why don't you adjust it, and advertise it as steers nice.
Lavoy

Oh Yeah. Or : it has been sitting for a while. The right side does not steer really good FOR NOW. Clutch will ''Place itself '' after a couple hours.

I didn't know nothing about crawlers and jdcrawlers site when I purshased my first 440. I would have lower the price for shure with the precious advices found here. I need to rebuild the whole crawler now. And what you find inside can be very surprising or absent... And nothing places itself after a while in there

My second 440 was supposed to had finals rebuilt. Now I have to do a field repair. And from what I see, I'm gonna have to pull everything behind the reverser to get it right. My repair/use ratio is not fair for now but I enjoy the time spent fixing it.

Have Receipts, pictures and every details possible about the history of repairs. Have someone who knows these. Or... Here's my new procedure:

1. Buy the crawler, Lower the price as much as you can pointing out what's to repair
2. Dismantle the whole machine to evaluate it. Repair what needs to.
3. Use it. Have fun with your tractor with no worries.

Oh Yes It is the hard way but... The Choice for me on these 50 years old and+ machines is: Preventive repair or field repair. I'd say you gotta to like mechanic work to enjoy this ''crawler experience'' and to save on costs. At the end you're gonna be proud of your work and have some new tools in your box!!!

[KenP]

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[JD440ICD2006]

KenP,

You nailed it.

The best thing a person that wants a crawler can do is learn the lingo, how they work, the wear points, the models with limited or non existent parts, etc.
Too many sellers are simply trying to turn a dime. Nothing wrong with that but so many of them will sell their soul and consicous just to make a dime or unload a "pretty" crawler knowing full well it has deep expensive issues.

If a seller wants to let me "test drive" it to "prove" that everything works, I will spent at least 30 minutes under load. Need to give it time for the engine and other systems to heat up. A seller that has something to hide will make excuses as to why he does not want you to drive it very long or place under a heavy load.
At that point, you thank him (and your lucky stars) and leave.

[andregrondin]

Hi !

Here are some more pics to help find out if this dozer is in good shape .

shnock , forgot to count the amount of grouser !! I have to go by there anyway so i will keep you up to date with this !!

[doc40c]

hi Andre, i counted the pads on the right and left sides as best i could from your first set of pics and i came up with 36 on both sides. they look pretty good from your second set of pics but you should still do the measuring as the other posts advised. good luck on your crawler journey!randy from michigan