1010 To reverse or not to reverse?

[stmftr395]

My 1010 does not have a reverser. As of this date I have only done work to the crawler, not with it. My question is that if I have access to a working reverser assembly should I buyb it to install next year when I gon through the engine? Is the benifit worth the cost and labor? I will not be trying to make a living with this crawler just work in the woods and on the farm. Opinions from all are incoureged. Thanks Mark

[Lavoy]

You will love it if you do it. You will need all of the reverser parts, linkage, pedal, cooler and such, make sure you have it all.
Lavoy

[stmftr395]

It is complete except for the cooler and I'm sure I can come up with something there. Is there any real maintenence issues with the reversers? Mark

[jdemaris]

My 1010 does not have a reverser. As of this date I have only done work to the crawler, not with it. My question is that if I have access to a working reverser assembly should I buyb it to install next year when I gon through the engine? Is the benifit worth the cost and labor? I will not be trying to make a living with this crawler just work in the woods and on the farm. Opinions from all are incoureged. Thanks Mark

Funny how things change over the years. Back in the 70s-80s, we converted several 440s, 1010s, and 350s to clutch-drive and removed the reversers - by customer requests. We used to save all the old 1010 and 350 reverser parts - but . . . threw out many complete 440 reversers. Wish I had them now.

Reverser is great to have when it works - and can be very expensive to fix when it doesn't. Most of our customers who paid to have their's removed were loggers who didn't seem to care as much about having the option.

If you have access to a used reverser and all needed parts - and tear it down and make sure all it right inside - it can last a long time and be fine. But, if you do otherwise - you're taking a big, expensive gamble. Especially with 1010 reversers. 1010s were the weakest, and the early 350s were not much better unless updated. The weakest link is the center-bearing assembly that takes all the counter-rotational load when working a machine in hydraulic-reverse. With the 350B series, Deere upgraded the parts to take a much larger center-bearing. These upgrades go back to all the 350s - but not the 1010s with the bronze-bushing in the flywheel instead of the pilot-ball-bearing.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Personally, when I use my 420c I most often am using 2nd gear which has the same ratio as reverse in the 5-speed transmission. So, while I have a reverser, I took dad's 'R' blocking bolt out and usually reverse with with the transmission, leaving the reverser in forward.

The bolcking bolt was originally intended for me as a kid, when I was learning how to use the old girl. Dad was scared that I'd put the tranny in 'R' and then the reverser in 'R' and burn up the reverser clutch packs.

I don't allow anyone else to ever use the 420c, so I don't fear for my reverser. I suppose when the grandkids get bigger, and I start teaching them about using equipment, I'll stick dad's bolt back into the 'R' slot! :p

The same thing holds true if I'm digging in hardpan, when I use 1st gear. In this case, using the tranny 'R' instead of the reverser makes it faster to back up.

Only when I'm transporting loose material do I use 3rd gear, and then I use the reverser not the tranny as it's faster, of course.

Now, I wonder. Was not the 1010 tranny the same as the 420's when it came to having 'R" with the same ratio as 2nd. Does the 1010 have power and overall gearing such that 2nd gear is no longer the most used working gear?

If the 1010 is like the 420, then maybe a reverser isn't all that important. I do know that when I had my JD350 it, too, had 'R' and 2nd with the same ratio, and the overall gearing was such that 2nd was the most used working gear.

Later!

Stan

[jdemaris]

Now, I wonder. Was not the 1010 tranny the same as the 420's when it came to having 'R" with the same ratio as 2nd. Does the 1010 have power and overall gearing such that 2nd gear is no longer the most used working gear?

If the 1010 is like the 420, then maybe a reverser isn't all that important. I do know that when I had my JD350 it, too, had 'R' and 2nd with the same ratio, and the overall gearing was such that 2nd was the most used working gear. Later! Stan

1010 crawlers have two different transmission ratios - early and late. Also - the 1010 diesel puts out better low-end toque than the gas engine since it's a lot bigger. A diesel can push in 2nd with either trans - whereas a gas might need 1st.

My farm is on a mountainside and my 1010 crawler-loader (gas-early ser #) never comes out of 1st gear. My 350 never comes out of 2nd.

I've put many new 350 transmission cases into late 1010s - so I know that at least the transmission cases interchange (late 1010s - 350s).

1010 before serial # 15258: ground speed at 1500 RPM
1st - .85, 2nd - 1.25, 3rd- 2.39, 4th - 3.92, Reverse - 1.43

1010 serial # 15258 and up: ground speed at 1500 RPM
1st - .85, 2nd - 1.16, 3rd- 1.99, 4th - 3.92, Reverse - 1.16

[Tiny Crawler]

Coming from other manual transmission tractors in the past years you get used to the clutch/shift/clutch change of gears when you are working the same action it is just a different Muscle Memory reaction you build up while operating to Get'RDone. Using the new equipment with shift on the fly transmission, what a treat.

If you are doing grading work with a blade or bucket it is a great gadget ever made and it really increases production. To install one a 40 year crawler, is all based on production and how fast you want to change directions if that is your goal, or it is a cool Gadget that I want an can't live with out, (I have that problem "Bad"), or it is a good deal and you feel like taking on a new challenge.

If you are on this board you already know that what ever you do is a black hole for your funds and time, and keeping the significant other happy when the good ole girl is in pieces in the garage taking up their parking spot

hope this helps,
Deep In
tiny..

[Stan Disbrow]

If you are on this board you already know that what ever you do is a black hole for your funds and time, and keeping the significant other happy when the good ole girl is in pieces in the garage taking up their parking spot

hope this helps,
Deep In
tiny..

Hi,

Maybe I ought to keep quiet here. My particular old girl is in one piece, has always been so, and ought to stay that way as I don't ever try and make a 420c work as hard as a D6. That's how they get all busted up like that, unfortunately. She has her own parking space in the tractor shed along with three wheel tractors.

I'm still looking for a JD350C or D with a 6-way PAT blade, but only because there was no PAT option for the 420c and one can't fit the 64 from the 440c on in place of the 62 she has. That's my only real issue with the 420c, is that I have to keep wrestling with the blade.

Otherwise, I keep right on using her whenever I need a dozer instead of a loader. In fact, I used it to move a couple semi dump truck loads of composted mulch just this past Sunday.

Later!

Stan

[Lavoy]

The other consideration is how long are you going to own the crawler? If you are getting rid of it soon, why bother. If the wife is going to use it to bury you, then I would do it. My personal opinion is I will not own a crawler without a reverser if it came on that model of crawler. My second opinion is that if you took out all of the operator error/lack of maintenance related reverser failures, there would be relatively few reverser failures. If it is your machine, you run it, you take care of it, I highly doubt you will ever touch a rebuilt reverser again regardless of whether gear type, clutch type, or hydraulic.
Lavoy

[stmftr395]

Thanks to all for your input. My wife will bury me with this crawler and/or kill me over it. Even after considering all the facts I have decided to purchase the reverser. I am a glutten for punishment, so I will hold no one responsible, although the saying misery loves company does come to mind. Thanks again Mark

[Lavoy]

See, you have a double benefit. With the reverser, it will be easier for the wife to dig the hole, and if she kills you over it, she will get more money out of it when she sells it.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that adding a reverser would not be worthwhile. I do like having one, even if I don't always use it in favor of the reverse in the transmission. I was just pointing out that if the 1010 bearing was like the 420's then you could get by fairly well without one.

In fact, after having had this 420c for so long (dad brought it home when I was five!) with one, I'd feel naked without it! I had that JD350 for a while without one and was always thinking about adding one to it - or getting a different JD350 with one.

The 420c did have to have new reverser clutches back around 1973 because I made the error of not having her stopped when I used the lever. That was when dad was first teaching me how to use it, and I got to learn a lot about how the machine was built helping him fix it. You know, I *still* feel bad about that.....

The thing has been fine ever since, though. Lavoy is correct, if you pay attention when using one, and keep it maintained properly, they will last forever. In fact, you can apply this to the entire machine. Don't overload the thing, keep it caught up to, and yours will last as this one has.

Well, we buried dad with it (not literally, but he often joked about that) and I expect my daughters will bury me with it and it'll go to the grandson. He's only five now, but already taking an interest in grandpa's toys.

Later!

Stan

[jdemaris]

. . . if you pay attention when using one, and keep it maintained properly, they will last forever

That is probably true with a collector's machine - but is not true with a working machine that is used daily - regardless of how well cared for. All mechanical things have lifespans. Engineers plan for it. With reversers - as used in 1010s and 350s - with the absolute best maintainece, most careful use, and best lubricants - they still have to be rebuilt after X hours of use. I rebuilt some for customers that were extremely careful. But - with them - the teardowns and rebuilds were planned and their reversers started to give trouble slowly - with warning. Most still ran when brought in. For the owners that beat on their machines an did not maintain - they often had a dead machine sititng in the woods somewhere.

[Lavoy]

I doubt there are may people on here that are going to run one of these old girls 8 hours a day, seven days a week. If they are, it is working for a living, and replacing a wear part is to be expected, and they will have the income from useage to pay for it. For 99% of the people on here, a properly run and maintained reverser will never be an issue in their lifetime at the level of useage that the lion's share of owners will put on one.
Lavoy

[jdemaris]

I doubt there are may people on here that are going to run one of these old girls 8 hours a day, seven days a week. If they are, it is working for a living, and replacing a wear part is to be expected, and they will have the income from useage to pay for it. For 99% of the people on here, a properly run and maintained reverser will never be an issue in their lifetime at the level of useage that the lion's share of owners will put on one.
Lavoy

There are 350Cs and 450Cs being used heavy - mainly those purchased from the Deere Certified Relife Program. State of Michigan, Department of Natural Resources is one of many. Seems there is no longer any company in the U.S. that makes a 5 ton crawler - and many forestry areas have rules that call for #1 a crawler under a certain weight, and #2 a crawler made in the U.S. That's how Deere got involved buying back 350Cs and 450Cs, completely rebuilding them, putting new serial # tags on them, and sending them back out with full warranty.

In regard to how most other older stuff gets used? I suspect most don't get used much - but there are exceptions. I use my Deere 1010 and my AC HD6 a lot during the summer. My neighbor - a dairly farmer has a first-year 350 and uses it daily - except in the winter. He cleans his barn with it.
I can see someone buying a crawler with a good trans and reverser and it lasting virtually forever if taken care of. I can also see (and have) someome buying such a machine that still seems to work OK but is actually on its last-legs - and a few months later - even when used carefully - they have a dead machine with a repair estimate that exceeds the purchase price.