What fluid to soak dry steering clutches in? Last resort?

[crawler123]

I know, I know. I shouldn't put any fluid in there.
But... Last resort to maybe free them up too possibly get some use out of the old crawler before tearing into it.

What fluid would be least damaging? Cause least amount of extra corrosion to other parts. Not damage shaft seals. etc. etc. etc.

I have heard all kind of fluids to try. Kerosene, diesel, PB blaster, WD40, Coke, I would prefer pepsi. , cleaning solvent, gasoline, oils of all kinds,
Turpentine, Phosphoric acid, muriatic acid even plain old water -- which probably caused the problem to begin with !!

I know any and all of these fluids will probably damage the fiber discs.
I realize that the fibers are already damaged otherwise I wouldn't have the problem. And if and when I tear into it I would be replacing them anyway.

Well go ahead and tell me any and all stories of success and failure. I want to hear them all.

Thanks
Dennis

[JWB Contracting]

We put about 5 litres of diesel in each clutch cavity and then anchor the machine to something that won't move. Run the machine with the steering clutch levers pulled back for a few minutes.

Drain and see what happens. Our sucess rate is about 50%. Works when the disks are slipping from sitting (rusty)

Will not stop oil from leaking in if that is your problem.

[Tigerhaze]

Any number of fluids can be used to free up dirt and rust. Water is the best universal solvent for rust but needs to be drained and dried out immediately to prevent re-rusting of the surfaces after exposure.

With regards to oil in the housings, I think my preference would be a non-petroleum based brake cleaner because it is designed to clean those type of brake and clutch surfaces and doesn't leave a residue. Anything that is oil-based (including fuel oils) will likely leave a residue that will tend to increase swelling of the fiber discs and slippage between the metal and fiber discs.

Just my $0.02 after reviewing numerous informed opinions on this board and elswhere.

[Lavoy]

In all likelyhood, if they are rusted that tight, and the crawler has been sitting for a while, or outside, it is not a function of the rust itself. What happens is the fiber plates grow when wet, just like a sponge. When they do this, they expand and crush the pressure plate fingers down against the pressure plate. Trying to free up clutches is for the most part a waste of time if they have sat for any length of time, if the disks are swelled, then it is a total waste of time.
Lavoy

[crawler123]

Then it seems to me that putting water in there would be the worst possible thing you could do.
There is of course a lot of moisture just in the air. If these fiber discs are so hygroscopic it would seem just high humidity would cause this.
If you try some warm dry air will the discs shrink back down or is the swelling permanent?
You hear about people tying back the steering levers to prevent the clutches from getting stuck. Seems like tying them back would let them swell all the more.

I was just thinking that alcohol absorbs water. Would that do anything?

Wonder why the fiber discs are so popular? I would think the metal discs with the coating would be just the ticket.
Or do people just like re doing clutch packs??

[Tigerhaze]

You hear about people tying back the steering levers to prevent the clutches from getting stuck. Seems like tying them back would let them swell all the more.

I have been doing that with my 2010 over the last couple of years. It has helped me with the issue of the clutches sticking from lack of use but I think it may have contributed to an adjustment issue on my steering levers. I'm not sure I would recommend it if the machine was used at least weekly and covered.

Wonder why the fiber discs are so popular? I would think the metal discs with the coating would be just the ticket.
Or do people just like re doing clutch packs??

Besides being more expensive and hard to find, a couple of the commercial crawler users on this site have indicated that the bi-metals discs don't steer as easily as the fiber discs. Read the thread below for more info:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ing+clutch

[Lavoy]

You asked what is the best for freeing up clutches that are rusty, and water is the best rust penetrant there is. Yes it might swell the clutches, but if yours are stuck that bad, they are junk anyway, and you can't hurt junk discs. You said you wanted to try something without tearing it apart, and water is the only thing that is going to soak into the rusty clutches and have any chance of freeing them. If the clutches are not swelled, but really stuck together, the only way to free them is tear down.
Aside from probably doing nothing to free up the clutches, any petroleum product you dump in there will also absorb into the clutches and most likely cause them to slip even if they did free up.
High humidity will cause the steel discs to surface rust and they stick together. Water getting in there will cause them to swell over time. IF you dump water in there and you actually get them to free up, you are going to have to run the crawler until enough heat is generated to burn all of the moisture out of the clutch pack. Then you will need to dry out the clutch housing as well.
All of the above is why I said that it is pretty much a waste of time, and tear down and replacement is the way to go if the crawler has sat outside a long time and/or had water in the clutches.
Lavoy

[crawler123]

Ok thanks Lavoy for the good advice.
The person I am getting the crawler from said that one of the clutches worked last year.
Then it got really hard to pull the lever and then it stuck also.
I'm pretty sure it had been left out in the weather a lot.
If the fibers are swelling can you see that the pressure plate is being squished by looking through the inspection plate?

[Lavoy]

If they are really swelled, you will see the fingers will be pushed down all the way to the pressure plate, and the throwout bearing will not even get close. If the throwout bearing will still touch the fingers, the clutch might break loose with some useage, but all bets are off.
I had a 40 one time that stuck, and I worked the crap out of it with zero freeply and the steering lever pulled back as far as I could, and it never let go. Dropped the final, and could pop all of the discs out easily with a screwdriver. Reassembled and adjusted, worked like a charm.
Lavoy

[440 iron popper]

Is there some kind of heating element that could be installed in steering housing to prevent that? I was thinking about some ''space heater'' like the ones used in standby generators to keep moisture out... It could be installed in the NPT drain plug of the steering housing. If the brake band isn't too close, I guess It could work. Crawler in the shed, heaters on.

[digitup2]

I have found that if the dry clutch system gets sized up your best bet is to rebuild the clutch pack it's self we did a dry clutch 450B several weeks ago and he had worked on the crawler and fought with the clutches for several days and the clutch fibers teeth on the outer diameter were beaten to darned near non existence well the first time he would have put it to work they would have sheered off and the dozer would come to a halt very quickly .Just rebuild the clutch packs and run it every two weeks or so .I have a 4200 Kubota tractor that is a 98 model and it has a clutch lock on it to lock the foot clutch back and relive pressure on the clutch face .I mentioned to the dealer that I used it for storage and he told me to cut the dam hook off they screw up the pressure springs .He said that they used this for on the dam boat bringing them over so I take it saving the clutch from rusting down I was buggering up the finger springs .I will just run the little beast a bit every two weeks or so .No machine is meant to sit for any long time and not run I guess .Digitup.

[crawler123]

Lavoy if the fiber discs are swelled and the pressure plate springs are squished in so that the throw out bearing does not even make contact, shouldn't the steering levers be floppy like they aren't doing anything?
The previous owner mentioned that the steering levers are hard to move.
Sounds to me that if the levers are hard to move that they are either rusted or the power steering isn't working.

Has anyone tried "IRON OUT" rust remover? Or is there something in there that would screw everything up? Just a thought.

[Lavoy]

Hard to move is a function of rust in other locations like pivots and such, and is not an indicator of clutch condition. In your case, it just means you have more to fix.
Lavoy

[crawler123]

Anybody know what's in "IRON OUT" brand stain remover?
Would this along with water help with rusted clutches?
Hopefully nothing so nasty that it would screw up seals and stuff.

[Lavoy]

Iron out is to remove iron stains, you have to loosen up rust, I can see no possible benefit to a laundry additive/sink cleaning product.
Lavoy