Fuel wont Bleed after Fuel Filter replacement

[JamesandDawn]

http://www.composurephoto.com/johndeere/img_1012.jpg
http://www.composurephoto.com/johndeere ... filter.jpg

Running 1976 John Deere JD 350C. Changed Fuel Filters - fuel came out of the bleed screw. But I forgot to turn the petcock back on, so ran for about a Minute (?) and died. Opened the fuel line, I have fuel coming out of the lifter pump when I pump it. It fills the first bowl a 1/3. Then WILL NOT COME TRHOUGH The bleed screw.

Additionally when you unscrew the bolt at the bottom of the bowl, it has fuel that comes out under pressure instead of just flowing out.

We Tried to bleed the injectors at the top with a paid mechanic who came to help us see what was all of sudden happening with a 15 minute maintenance problem. He can't get fuel out of the top of the engine because it cant even flow into fuel filter #2. We checked all the holes to make sure fuel is flowing from the fuel lifter pump.

We even removed fuel filter #2 altogether to see if we could push fuel out from fuel filter #1. Absolutely baffled. Diesel is new. Battery is on tender. Even bought 2 new fuel filters and then tried old fuel filters and changed the screws holding the filters in (just in case we reversed them front to back when we put the filters back in)

Any one ever have something similar happen or a suggestion of order of events for us to try.

[bennyt]

Did you change the seal in the filter housing? I helped a cousin of mine who had this problem on a Ford tractor. He put the new seal on top of the filter without removing the old seal from the groove causing the new seal to go down into the top of the filter blocking the flow of fuel.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

The fuel is obviously blocked. My first thought was the same: old gasket didn't come out and now there are two. One is probably blocking the inlet port of the number two filter. Fuel passes from the outside to the inside and the passage is part of the filter housing and pretty close to the gasket. This is a fairly common occurrence. I always suspected it was why Deere dropped the dual element filter unit for the snap-on one.

Stan

[hydrogeo]

My father had an International 500c dozer and the fuel system on that thing was a bear to bleed. First time I changed the filters I tried everything and still couldn't get fuel past the filters. Someone on the International forum suggested popping off the fuel filler cap, and putting a couple of psi of air pressure in the tank with a blow gun and a rag to hold the pressure. This worked slick, did the trick every time.

[JamesandDawn]

Did you change the seal in the filter housing? I helped a cousin of mine who had this problem on a Ford tractor. He put the new seal on top of the filter without removing the old seal from the groove causing the new seal to go down into the top of the filter blocking the flow of fuel.

We removed the old gasket and chose the best fitting of the 3 included new gaskets. Also replaced the "O" ring on the top of the nipple that the bolt screws into.

[JamesandDawn]

Hi,

The fuel is obviously blocked. My first thought was the same: old gasket didn't come out and now there are two. One is probably blocking the inlet port of the number two filter. Fuel passes from the outside to the inside and the passage is part of the filter housing and pretty close to the gasket. This is a fairly common occurrence. I always suspected it was why Deere dropped the dual element filter unit for the snap-on one.

Stan

I'll take a pic of what it looks like and post that. I'll also simply remove all the gaskets and see if I at least get fuel flow through to filter #2 as well, albeit it will leak.

Additionally the guy at napa thought I had the glass bowl reversed and it should be filter #1 - would that change anything? Other than the bolt has a different hole pattern?

[JamesandDawn]

My father had an International 500c dozer and the fuel system on that thing was a bear to bleed. First time I changed the filters I tried everything and still couldn't get fuel past the filters. Someone on the International forum suggested popping off the fuel filler cap, and putting a couple of psi of air pressure in the tank with a blow gun and a rag to hold the pressure. This worked slick, did the trick every time.

So, Thats the metal cap holding both fuel filters in there? Sounds reasonable.

[JamesandDawn]

Hi,

The fuel is obviously blocked. My first thought was the same: old gasket didn't come out and now there are two. One is probably blocking the inlet port of the number two filter. Fuel passes from the outside to the inside and the passage is part of the filter housing and pretty close to the gasket. This is a fairly common occurrence. I always suspected it was why Deere dropped the dual element filter unit for the snap-on one.

Stan

So, to that note about the housing being part of how the fuel passes through - would smaller gaskets that fit deeper inside the filter be better than ones that would come up past the lip of the filter? I felt as if I had replaced them evenly - and it had run before I let it run out of fuel all together and then just couldnt get it to go past filter #1. frustrating for sure.

[hydrogeo]

My father had an International 500c dozer and the fuel system on that thing was a bear to bleed. First time I changed the filters I tried everything and still couldn't get fuel past the filters. Someone on the International forum suggested popping off the fuel filler cap, and putting a couple of psi of air pressure in the tank with a blow gun and a rag to hold the pressure. This worked slick, did the trick every time.

So, Thats the metal cap holding both fuel filters in there? Sounds reasonable.

No, the main fuel tank. I don't know where the bleeder is on the 350 filter assembly but there was one on the housing on the the 500c. I opened that bleeder and put pressure on the fuel tank until the air was out of the filter bleeder. I then bled everything downstream from there.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Bleeders are on top of the housing, one for each filter. Good point about loosening the fuel cap. And having the tank full. Helps bleeding even when all is A-OK.

As far as the gaskets go, whichever fits right. It has to seal the filter and not block anything. Kind of hard to say anything more without being there. I am unsure why you have different sizes.

At this point, I would pull both filters off and stick a can under #1 and work the primer. Watch what comes out the hole and see if it is clear or not. Then, put #1 on by itself and see how that goes. Ought to fill up and fuel come out inlet hole for #2. Then put #2 filter on and loosen the #2 bleeder and see what happens. If that didn't work, I would pull the outlet line. In other words, follow the fuel path.

Stan

[JamesandDawn]

Hi,

Bleeders are on top of the housing, one for each filter. Good point about loosening the fuel cap. And having the tank full. Helps bleeding even when all is A-OK.

As far as the gaskets go, whichever fits right. It has to seal the filter and not block anything. Kind of hard to say anything more without being there. I am unsure why you have different sizes.

At this point, I would pull both filters off and stick a can under #1 and work the primer. Watch what comes out the hole and see if it is clear or not. Then, put #1 on by itself and see how that goes. Ought to fill up and fuel come out inlet hole for #2. Then put #2 filter on and loosen the #2 bleeder and see what happens. If that didn't work, I would pull the outlet line. In other words, follow the fuel path.

Stan

Okay- did that today. The fuel spurts out of the fuel pump when I crank over the engine. The glass bowl fills quickly and then nothing. Meaning, the pressure builds so much in filter one glass bowl that when its unscrewed it SPRAYS out as if it's under pressure - and th engine is obviously not running. The filter will not fill or come out the top of bleeder screw.

There were 3 gaskets to choose from in the napa box. We picked the one that fit best and most represented visually the look of the one being replaced.

I have a video of what I did, but don't know how to post a video here. It's 12 seconds long.

Thanks everyone . Any idea how long a filter will fill up and come out the top, the mechanic was very surprised it and completely baffled it just simply didn't flow out. I'm thinking about removing the gasket at The top to see if it will at least flow through.......???????

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

The filters get fuel to the outside and it flows thru to the inside. The inside of the first filter connects to the outside of the second internal to the filter housing. Obviously, there is a blockage somewhere. You should get fuel out of the bleeders on top.

I would pull both filters and check those passages.

Stan

[DrLoch]

Or replace what you have with something like this, https://www.ebay.com/itm/FUEL-FILTER-WA ... SwnCFaF33X

I have a Ferguson 23C Diesel Tractor, fuel filters on it leaked constantly. Replaced with one of the Parker Racors never looked back.

[Jim B]

Interesting problem, but frustrating for you.

I am wondering about the fuel flow direction through that housing. If the fuel flows from outside to inside the bleeder must be ported to the inside (bolt area) or you should have gotten fuel out of the bleeder if fuel was on top of the filter. With the filter off see which area the bleeder screw vents. When you tried putting fuel through the system per Stan's last post did you try pumping fuel with the line from the pump connected and first filter off? Like Stan said try each step, don't skip a point if you want to pinpoint the problem. With the filter off, was the fuel coming in onto where the top of the filter would be or in center of the filter housing where the bolt would be? To me it would seem it has to be feeding the center or you would get fuel out the bleeder, if the bleeder vents the top outside area of the filter. You got some fuel and pressure in the bowl so the filter apparently fills from the bottom up, so water and dirt can settle in the bowl. Then fuel goes through the filter to the bleeder and out to the second filter. Getting some fuel and pressure in the bowl and nothing at the bleeder would indicate a blockage in that filter, I think. The parts catalog shows they originally used a screen (NLA) below that first filter which would indicate to me the fuel flow was down the bolt and then up thru the screen to the filter. Just my thoughts.

Just to review a few things. You said swapped filter positions so a defective element is highly unlikely. You have the glass sediment bowl on the first filter (primary filter) the fuel from the pump enters and the metal bowl on the secondary filter now (this is as shown in the parts catalog)? That lets you visually see if you are getting water or other crap in the filter. By the parts catalog the bolts that hold the filters and bowls are the same. You have cleaned them well? When you replaced the gasket at the top of the filters; the one old gasket was removed from, and one new gasket is now, up in the groove in the filter housing where the rim of the filter fit; no gasket on top of the filter inside the rim? (Those filters work on a multitude of manufacturers' units thus the three gaskets in the NAPA box to pick from, throw away the one that doesn’t fit either the top groove or bottom at the bowl.)

In the parts catalogs this filter set up only shows up on 350's and early 350B's, not to say it couldn't be on later models. Double check your serial number. The later B's and C's show the snap on type, square glass filter Stan mentioned. Just throwing out what the parts catalog shows. There are other filter conversions available now including spin-ons now, as well as the option DrLoch mentioned. Good luck.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

It has been a long time since I had that style fuel filter. My old straight 350 and 1520 had that type. So, I might misremember fuel flow direction. But, filter elements are fed to the outside so there is more space to trap stuff. Plus, the element has greater strength being pushed in since the fibers will self-reinforce in that direction.

The older fuel bowls fed in the center, went down into the bowl, and up to the screen, and out. But, we are talking older iron like a 420. They had no filter element, though. Just gravity in the bowl and a screen in case gravity didn't do the trick.

The glass bottoms on these dual element filters are so you can see any water, and then drain it out. Usually, they wind up painted. Or, covered in dirt. Later units went to metal bottoms because glass breaks a bit too easy. And, if it gets covered over, it does no good to be glass anyway.

IIRC, the bleeders are in the passage between the outlet of filter 1 and the inlet of filter 2, and between the outlet of filter 2 and the feed line to the IP.

Once you pull it all apart and follow the fuel flow, you can then tell us for sure which way the fuel flows thru those elements. And, hopefully, tell us what went wrong.

Stan