Logging in VT

[Paul Buhler]

My little 420 got lonely and invited some big friends over to play.







Note the number of sliders on the 650; I use two and a grab hook on my 420. The skidder tires are over 6' in diameter, and the feller weighs over 35000 lbs. They moved a lot of wood in a hurry. Unfortunately, I didn't get a picture of the team in action with the chipper/slasher/ box trucks. This company cut, hauled and chipper two box loads of softwood chips, sorted out the saw logs, and cleaned up my site in under two days. They also did a 7 acre clear cut of a dying red pine stand for my neighbor; that took only a few days more.

[notmeu]

Paul, thanks for sharing those photos of some equipment most of us would love to have at our disposal. That feller buncher sure would be a treat to operate! It is amazing what they did in such a short amount of time, although I'm surprised that they use keyholes instead of hooks on the sliders!

[Paul Buhler]

Tom: Keyholes are strong and won't splay and get sloppy like a hook can under the forces these big winches can generate. My equipment had much smaller winches, and I never had a problem bending hooks. I liked that I could sometimes hook with one hand moving only the choker weight close to the hook when cinching; keyholes almost always require two hands and handling the weight of the whole chain as it got threaded through the eye and onto the cinch link. Just a personal preference based on how I was taught and what I experienced. The 650 owner has a lot of experience and likes his setup as well. Btw, he only has 50' of 5/8" cable on this machine and used a swaged end stop to keep the sliders on.

Notice how his lower fair leads look like yours? This 650 set up can be run to hoist the load, or rethread the cable for straight pulls. How the cable is run is determined by how the machine is being used, and can be switched fairly easily. Paul

[notmeu]

Wow 50 feet of cable! I'm definitely going to cut some off of mine, the more I use the winch I am realizing I do not need as much cable as I originally thought. I really like the upper fairleads on that 650 although I don't think our little 420's would steer at all with a setup like that!

[Paul Buhler]

Tom: An integral arch is a nice thing, but in my opinion, not on a machine as small as ours. If a hitch is light relative to the machine's weight, an integral arch will lift the choker end of the hitch off the ground reducing drag and dirty logs. If the load is heavy, the leverage will leave the machine "pawing the sky" as the leverage is in favor of the load and not the machine. This means that the load is on the finals and last rolls and not on all the ground bearing track. This also means that there is less real traction and more strain on the whole system.
That said, an integral arch is an asset if you "load light, bind tight" and treat your machine with respect for its capabilities (I had one on each of my 350 and 450 dozers - significantly heavier machines than a 420, 430, or 440. I ran a different number of sliders on each of these machines to balance the load/arch capabilities).
That said, running a winch without an integral arch allows for straighter pulls that puts the forces of the load more along the horizontal axis of the machine which engages more grousers and greater traction with less strain on the finals.
So if the dozer is being used for bunching or short hauls, no arch is needed. If the machine is being used for longer hauls, an integral arch is nice since it lifts the load for less drag and cleaner wood.

A smaller machine can run an independent tow behind arch quite effectively since the load forces are transferred to the crawler drive train in in a way that uses the system better. Just my thoughts. Others may have differing views. Paul

[CuttingEdge]

I agree with you Paul.

We had John Deere 1010 and while its winch never worked what we did to make it productive was ground skid the wood to a scoot, then roll the wood onto a scoot and then at break, lunch or when it was time to go home, go out with a scoot load of wood. We could get 200-2500 bf of logs on the scoot and so instead of making a lot of trips wearing out the tracks, we only made a few, getting a lot of wood out with each trip!

On frozen ground with snow you would be surprised what that little dozer could pull. With all the undulations in a forest, there was little drag because the scoot runner might only be hitting in a few spots and just like in the old days when two horses could pull unbelievable loads of wood, so could that dozer on favorable grades at least.

Here we have cut with everything; from horses to feller-bunchers, but one of the reasons I chose the dozer is because of its rather slow speed. I could have got a skidder, but with only a few hundred acres of woods to cut, I would be out of wood in relatively short order. The dozer gives me the ability to get bigger trees out then my current 2500 Kubota Tractor, and can get into places I never could before due to wet areas, all without ruts.

We typically do not think of dozers for farm equipment, but it has uses around the farm too. So I chose a dozer over a skidder and think it was a good choice FOR ME. For others, skidders might be better.

[CuttingEdge]

Generally the weight ratio is 60/40 on equipment. I know this is true on skidders and bucket-loaders, and I assume on tracked skidders too. By that I mean empty they are designed to have 60% of their weight over the front axle, and 40% of their weight over their back axle when EMPTY. However, when properly loaded with a bucketful of gravel, or pulling a twitch of wood, they swap that ration, with 40% on the front axle and 60% on the back axle. That is the way they are designed anyway.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Well, these little dozers were originally produced as farm equipment. Then, others figured out ways to use them, too. That is the whole history of Deere's Dubuque plant.

One of the best uses for a crawler on the farm is brush cutting a field which has lain fallow a bit too long. The sharp stumplets from the little trees do love to punch holes in rubber tires.....

Stan

[CuttingEdge]

I wish they kept making them with 3 point hitches and PTO shafts. I might actually give up my first born daughter for that on my 350D. Now I say daughter only because I am only allowed daughters...I have 4 and no son. Of course with 4 daughters...the boys are sure to follow.

As a side note: as the youngest is practically killing the cat by lugging it from one place to the other and screaming at the top of her lungs, I just might GIVE the youngest one away. Any takers? She is cute, but she is 2 years old!

[CuttingEdge]

When I was in diesel tech school we repaired equipment for taxpayers with the understanding that they had to pay for parts, and we did it as time allowed. Anyway this guy came into the school a few times to have his bush hog PTO shaft crosses repaired. On the third trip the Diesel Tech Teacher asked him what he was doing to snap so many PTO shafts.

He had a pull behind bushog and was towing it with a JD1010 crawler and making square corners!

[Paul Buhler]

...treat your machine with respect for its capabilities

BTW, you might get more takers for the cat - in the long run, cheaper to feed

[notmeu]

Tom: An integral arch is a nice thing, but in my opinion, not on a machine as small as ours.

Paul, I definitely agree our machines are way too light for a integral winch. Thanks for posting the thread on your "420's bigger friends". I enjoyed the topic on logging!

[Paul Buhler]

Tom: once we get a machine dialed in, it's a joy to use. I admire the work you've done on yours, and mine has served me well too. Happy Easter. Paul

[CuttingEdge]

I know this is a John Deere Dozer message board and I do not wish to be too disrespectful, but I know Cat makes a Tracked Skidder which implies it was purpose built for logging, where as the 650 John Deere is more of a machine that was adapted for the role. I have always wondered what the in-seat difference would be?

[notmeu]

Cuttingedge, this is a Deere website! The cat doesn't have a chance!!

Although the Cat 527 tracked skidder is a pretty interesting looking machine!!!